07624* is billed by Three and T-Mobile as an international text?
If this is accurate, it’s just ridiculous. Got it in via the anonymous form.
Here’s what I understand has been going on.
The 07624 UK number range is operated by Manx Telecom — the Isle of Man telecoms company.
For some reason, T-Mobile customers and Three customers are being charged international rates to send text messages to that block of numbers. How do I know this? Well, the anonymous commentary — there is a heck of a lot — indicates subscribers to those networks have been complaining and asking for clarification.
The number range is in use all over the place — as a quick Google search shows. Even the BBC News 24’s operates 07624 800 100 (bottom of the page on tha tlink).
Surely it’s a bit naughty for these operators to classify a number range that you, I and anyone else would recognise as thoroughly ‘British’ as an international rate text?
Can anyone shed any light on this? Are the end-users with the proof of this on their bills just a tiny exception? A temporary billing error?
I cant be a thousand per cent sure Ewan but I think a lot of the UK based roaming sims also use this prefix.
Posted by Pat Phelan on April 12th, 2007 at 11:51 pm.correct me if I am wrong?
Ewan, it’s the same for messages to Cable & Wireless Guernsey (CWG) and Jersey Telecom. They are classifed as Europe Zone 1 by T-Mobile
In the case of Manx, I understand that they charge a 4p SMS interconnect fee to the mainland operators instead of the standard 3p. Which gives a bit of revenue for the aggregator but could explain why it costs the consumer more. However, I don’t believe this increased interconnect fee is required by the CWG and Jersey
When speaking to Ofcom and the networks about this, it seems the non-mainland carriers are in a bit of a juristiction no-mans-land. It’s not just interconnect fees, for example Ofcom doesn’t require/enforced number portability between the mainland operators and non-mainland.
We run thousands of virtual mobile numbers and it is for exactly this reason we try and stay clear of those provided by the non-mainland operators.
Posted by Adam Bird on April 12th, 2007 at 11:54 pm.I feel sorry for the consumer. They get told ‘normal network rates’, even if it’s not said clearly they assume it. Then they get their bill, and voila.. it’s cost them a lot more to text than they were expecting.
Ewan’s Google link provided a whole list of companies in mainland UK that use 07624 numbers. I mean, even the BBC have one.. how more ‘British’ can you get than that?
No wonder this industry has such a bad reputation sometimes.. sigh
Alex
Posted by Alex on April 13th, 2007 at 12:07 am.this will also effect voice calls - i.e. you mentioned Tyntec launching long codes for Voice and SMS. Some/all of the carriers will treat the voice call as international (or semi international)..
It’s not really a secret as such, but it’s not exactly ideal.
Posted by Njar on April 13th, 2007 at 12:17 am.I concur with Njar. It’s not news, it’s been going on ever since we’ve had text to win as the early ones pre-dated shortcodes. At that point, most of the long numbers provided were Jersey or Guernsey Telecom which when it comes to the UK are treated as ‘foreign’ (ditto the Isle of Man). And you were indeed charged 20p as your normal rate instead of 10p. And these weren’t usually included in your text bundle. Probably still aren’t as they’re ‘foreign’. Then again, if you text a short-code, it’s never part of your text bundle either.
I agree it’s very misleading to customers.
But as annoying is if you visit the Isle of Man (which I have done a lot in the past and plan to go again in the future, for it is a very pretty place) is that as a visitor using your mobile, you get charged a fortune on roaming charges on your mobile, but if you use a landline from the UK to the Isle of Man, it’s your normal long distance rate. And the numbers look just like local UK numbers. Grrr. It’s a quirk of the UK that neither the Channel Islands nor the Isle of Man are in the UK. They are in fact part of the British Isles. So they can do things as they see fit.
Posted by technokitten on April 13th, 2007 at 1:38 am.I actually worked this out a few years back when I was using http://www.csoft.co.uk as a 2-way SMS gateway when testing my services and also the reason why I dropped them.
Here is the old email:
From: Nasser Ahmed, 03 Nov 2004 19:42:24
Subject: Issue 16343: 2 Way 07624 Number
Description: After getting my service 2 way live, I recently got a bill back from my mobile operator stating that 07624 is charged as an International premium text message. Thinking this was just my provider I checked up on the 07624 prefix to find out that its actually a Manx Telecom number from the Isle of man. This is not good at all as all my advertising and promo material states the number is a UK number charged at UK rates, which in fact it’s not. I need to change this number ASAP with a full refund of my setup and monthly rental paid. I’m not too happy that this wasn’t stated up front in the signup for the 2 Way service, along with all the adverting and promo material which has been paid for and printed up for distribution. This is in fact, one big mess I need sorted out ASAP.
As you can see I was a little upset…
Posted by Nasser on April 13th, 2007 at 10:57 am.My Analysis back then showed the following charges for the 07624 prefix text messages:
TMobile: 0.20p
Vodafone: 0.24p
Virgin: 0.20p
O2: 0.25p
Orange: 0.14p
None of the operators include messages to 07624 in text bundles or free texts.
Posted by Nasser on April 13th, 2007 at 11:01 am.The main problem here is that Ofcom doesn’t feel responsible for whatever reasons. But they definitively should protect consumer interests. And as the Isle of Man is part of the UK number range and very closely linked to the UK in many ways, I can’t see how Ofcom can get away with their wait and see approach.
No consumer can expect to be charged higher fees for sending SMS or for calling the IOM than he/she will be charged for the same services to any other UK operator.
That’s the bottom line and it’s about time to draw some public attention on this fraudulent behaviour of the respective UK operators.
Posted by APA on April 13th, 2007 at 11:15 am.Nasser has hit the nail right on the head.
Messages to channel island telcos et al are charged to other operators at a high termination rate - consequently they can pass a higher revenue share on to their customers (the BBC) than other companies using mainland long number routes.
The question is - do Manx and the others explain to their customers (the BBC) why this is the case, and that messages are being charged at a higher rate? The BBC (who are normally whiter than white) don’t tell the views this, so I’d guess that these companies are mis-representing the business.
Posted by John on April 13th, 2007 at 11:39 am.APA,
ironically, if OFCOM did come in an sort out the termination rates between the mainland the channel islands/mann, then manx and the others would lose a load of their business because they wouldn’t offer such attractive revenue shares. Problem solved, but not in the way you might have expected.
Posted by John on April 13th, 2007 at 11:42 am.Actually on Orange and O2, the SMS can come out of one’s bundle. It’s a matter of shortcode configuration. Usually costs 12p to Voda, 10p to Three, T-Mobile and Virgin, and either ‘talk-plan’ or 10/12p to O2 and Orange. But on balance and in working practice SMS into shortcodes don’t come out of inc texts. You can of course now run ‘free-text’ services which mimic the idea of 0800 numbers. They’ve only recently become available cross net.
Posted by Njar on April 13th, 2007 at 11:43 am.In a similar vein, I was somewhat surprised to see my bill after making calls to a client in Alderney. Three had charged me for ‘international’ calls, even though the STD code is thoroughly UK-looking. I recognise that there’s a geographical element to this, but surely that’s a small cost for the networks to swallow to avoid upsetting customers who think they’re phoning the UK as part of their bundled minutes?
I’m a big fan of Three (esp X-Series) but this one counts as a black mark against it!
Posted by Mark on April 13th, 2007 at 11:49 am.This is indeed old news. However iTAGG started pressing over a year ago for the range we use via Jersey to be treated as national rate rather than the international rate. 3UK came on board with this last year, leaving just poor old T Mobile back at evening class doing a Geography GCSE retake.
steve/itagg.com
Posted by steve procter on April 13th, 2007 at 2:43 pm.John,
AFAIK the interworking between the islands and the UK networks is 3p. The exception is T-Mobile, which is 4p, and Three, which is, bizarrely, nowt.
If T-Mobile are paying Manx et al 4p+VAT, where is the justification for charging at international rate? I can understand some true international destinations being expensive as the interworking can reach the giddy heights of 8-10p. However, at worse case scenario having to ’spend’ 1p more but doubling how much they charge the end user is just not cricket.
Now this is the point where someone pipes up about Vodafone and Orange and how much they charge for their MSISDNs versus the Islands.. I can’t mention figures as it’s all under the usual NDAs but it’s safe to say the cost for a ‘mainland’ MSISDN seems to be a lot higher than the Islands.
Alex
Posted by Alex on April 13th, 2007 at 4:32 pm.Steve, re: T-Mobile, it’s a Hertfordshire thing. I’m surprised they can find the way out their own offices in Hatfield without getting lost, let alone figure out where Jersey is
Says the man who even after a year living in Hertfordshire regularly gets lost around Hatfield and its myriad of roundabouts, and used to think til not that long ago that Jersey was just off the coast of Cornwall..!
Posted by Alex on April 13th, 2007 at 4:40 pm.John - Rev share on channel island long numbers isn’t the reason they’ve been used. Commercials to run them, set up speed and availability are greater reasons. Vodafone UK will outpay revenue on big mobile numbers (subject to some terms). Besides just because some of the UK networks treat channel islands/manx as offshore, it doesn’t mean that they themselves have been getting charged more to deliver to them - i.e. there’s no more revenue to be paid out, since it stays with the UK carriers and isn’t passed on.
The T-Mobile thing is for a different reason Steve. More to do with continuity of internetworking fee agreements across the T-Mobile group. The situation won’t be changing any time soon either.
Posted by Njar on April 13th, 2007 at 5:06 pm.roundabouts in herts!!! Oh god yes I remember why I left. That one that has 4 mini roundabouts on a big one - and you effectively go round them the wrong way. oh what a messed up place
as for Jersey - is that the one in the irish sea? or am I thinking about Sky?
steve/itagg.com
Posted by steve procter on April 13th, 2007 at 5:09 pm.Just to mention the 07624 charges I quoted were from Novemebr 2004. They have more than likely changed now.
Also, some of the FREETEXT services are still charging standard rate for outbound. I tried to text “Infomob” on 83248 which was mean’t to be free but charged me. I’m not sure who the provider is?
The sad thing is even after 3ish years operators and still charging top whack for aledged UK mobile numbers. This could be discussed further but the bottom line is that the end customer is being mislead.
Maybe Ewan should start a petition once he is fed up of his N95???
Nasser
Posted by Nasser on April 15th, 2007 at 11:08 am.We taking bets on how long it’ll be before the word ‘arse’ appears in the same blog posting as ‘N95′?
I don’t know how Ofcom would see this legally, as although these numbers are part of the UK numbering plan they’re not technically in the UK. Therefore the operators could claim they’re allowed to charge it as international. However, as so many SMS aggregators use these types of numbers, and they are ’sold’ to all intents and purposes as standard UK mobile numbers, they might have to sit up and take interest.
If the main UK operators made it a little bit easier to get hold of long numbers on their own networks at a half decent price, and perhaps with a bit of revenue share along the way, the whole industry wouldn’t be so fond of the offshore solution. I mean, it’s not just me is it? There’s not a huge amount of aggregators out there that I know of that offer Vodafone long numbers, or the like.
Posted by Alex on April 15th, 2007 at 8:41 pm.I was billed by 3 for txts to 07624*, I complained they said it was a billing error and credited the txts in the next bill.
Posted by rich on April 17th, 2007 at 11:21 am.Quite frankly my opinion on the matter is that the Isle Of Man is a crown dependency, and is not a part of the UK. In the Isle Of Man goverment’s own words, and I quote;
“As a Crown dependency, the ultimate responsibility for the government of the Island is vested in the Crown. By long standing convention, the U.K. Government does not legislate for the Island except with the specific consent of the Island’s Government. ”
Hence why Ofcom cannot interfere.
The Isle Of Man has also recently further strengthened it’s international identity (1st May 2007 - http://www.gov.im/lib/news/cso/internationalide.xml)
Originally the Isle Of Man was included in the UK numbering scheme, and still is until this day, and I quote wikipedia;
“The telephone service in the United Kingdom was originally provided by private companies and local councils. But by 1912–13 [2] all except the telephone service of Kingston upon Hull, Yorkshire and Guernsey had been bought out by the Post Office. The Post Office also operated telephone services in Jersey until 1923 and the Isle of Man until 1969 when the islands took over responsibility for their own postal and telephone services - although the Isle of Man remained part of British Telecom until 1987″
I believe that like Ireland, the Isle Of Man should have it’s own country code, and be seperated from the UK numbering scheme once and for all, if it refuses to play fair ball.
If it is part of the UK numbering scheme, it should be regulated by ofcom, the same as any of the mainland operators.
Maybe the Isle Of Man should keep their 6 digit numbering scheme, and adopt the international dialling prexfix (+466) (IOM), because at the moment, as far as I can see, they are being (+27737’s)… I’ll let you work that out for yourselves.
Posted by Justin on May 1st, 2007 at 9:13 pm.Guernsey and Jersey are international too, according to my latest T-Mobile bill.
Isle of Wight and the Isle of Sheppey next in the masterplan from the geography committee in Hatfield?
Posted by Alex on May 3rd, 2007 at 12:38 pm.I found this post because I’ve recently taken up a contract with Three that includes free texts, yet I’ve been charged 25p (inc VAT) for texts to Twitter, that come up as “Manx Mobile”. I had no idea these would not be included in my allowance.
I shall follow Rich’s (comment 20) example and complain, but I feel duped - I took up this contract *because* of the free texts, knowing that I’d use them to send messages to Twitter.
Thank you for posting this - at least I know now why I’ve been charged…
Posted by domino on May 30th, 2007 at 9:32 am.When i text a 07624 or 07624 number the texts come out my O2 free texts bundle. I am O2 pay as you go.
Posted by www.experimentalist.co.uk on August 1st, 2007 at 4:49 pm.can anyone tell me if i call 07624 numbers from o2 network, will they charge the number as international or as a uk number? will i be able to use monthly free minutes to call that number? anyone have an idea? thanks
Posted by tia on August 13th, 2007 at 10:20 pm.Hi Folks
the high interconnect rates on non-mainland long numbers are a problem.
However, your only other real choice if you want a “true” UK number is voda long numbers. We can offer these - there are only a handful of providers that can, - this is because (1) vodafone don’t have too many partners and (2) the connection to vodafone for this service is very complex.
the market for long numbers is also changing - we’re open to negotiation on price depending on your usage model..
cheers
adam/aql
Posted by adam beaumont on September 20th, 2007 at 10:34 am.Like Domino above I have just received a nasty surprise in my first 3 bill, as I am a Twitter user. I expected to be able to Twitter using the texts included in my plan - but have instead been charged 25p per text for sending international messages. Discussing it via the Indian call centre has not been an easy experience and I’m now looking for a way to escalate my complaint. Is this a legitimate charge or am I justified in seeking reimbursement? I feel as though I’ve been misled - any ideas?
Posted by Jenni Lloyd on January 10th, 2008 at 12:15 am.Oh come on!
“I found this post because I’ve recently taken up a contract with Three that includes free texts, yet I’ve been charged 25p (inc VAT) for texts to Twitter, that come up as “Manx Mobileâ€. I had no idea these would not be included in my allowance.
I shall follow Rich’s (comment 20) example and complain, but I feel duped - I took up this contract *because* of the free texts, knowing that I’d use them to send messages to Twitter”
Did you ask 3 if Twitter texts were included? They’d probably not know how Twitter SMS are sent, and Twitter might change provider, you can hardly expect an MNO to track every possible service. Or would you have them automatically stop SMS sending/arriving if a service provider changed their aggregator? Maybe block the service/any service likely to be more pricey than normal?
‘Can ‘o’ Worms’ doesn’t do it justice….
Mike
Posted by Mike on January 10th, 2008 at 3:42 pm.anyone know anyone at Twitter? It would be easier to just get them to change to a proper UK carrier..
Posted by njar on January 10th, 2008 at 5:42 pm.I’ll email them..
Posted by Ewan on January 10th, 2008 at 7:23 pm.Maybe it’s just me but I’ve always known that sending Twitters cost me 25p.
This is why I use http://m.twitter.com instead. SO much cheaper.
Posted by James Whatley on January 10th, 2008 at 8:46 pm.Can someone confirm which UK networks ‘do not’ charge for receiving Twitter Text messages? I use O2 and don’t get charged but I’ve heard 3 users do. Does anyone have a list of the current charges for sending and receiving Twitter alerts from each me the UK networks? I want to setup a results service for my Sports Club but I’m concerned if people will be charged to receive the texts. Thanks, Jon
Posted by Jon Bray on January 11th, 2008 at 9:29 am.Jon, it’s free to receive — it’s just sending messages (apparently with both 3 and T-Mobile) that it costs extra.
Posted by Ewan on January 11th, 2008 at 9:52 am.Ewan, Thanks. Jon
Posted by Jon Bray on January 11th, 2008 at 12:02 pm.Orange don’t charge, twitter txts come out of my free txts ^_^
Posted by Tobeon on January 23rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm.